Hey guys, Huron here again. How is everyone. Well the Nova Open has come and gone, and it has left yours truly with some big dilemmas to figure out. For starters I spent a bunch of money upgrading my computer to better handle the requirements demanded of it to broadcast the Open live on Friday and Sunday. This improvements did not to help at all and we had to use Bill's machine for most of the heavy lifting.
Secondly I played in the tournament on Saturday and in a pickup game on Sunday vs Pat's (from the 11th company podcast) Chaos Daemon army. Man did I get spanked. I only won 1 game all weekend, and just barely at that. Never fear, though as I have video to edit into video battle reports to be posted. Expect the first batch to show up here tomorrow.
So with that said, I am left with a dilemma, as I said before. What should I do with the Griffons? They are my best painted army (waiting to see what kind of paint score I got) and probably the only one that will be of that quality when I move onto playing prep games for the Battle for Salvation Open coming in October which, I will be attending. I have my new BA army, which is in the mid level painting stages right now, still a long way to go with lots of play testing to do (still have not played a game with this army yet) before I come up with a final version of a list I could use. Alternatively I could reach into the depths of my gaming closet and pull out one of many projects hiding in there.
I have an idea... and the models for a hard hitting mech hybrid Chaos Marine army that combines aspects of how Mech Guard is played and the current Dread/Monsterous Creature method that is doing well right now. Alternately I could pull the Orks from the depths and give them a go again. Lots to paint in that army but I think it could be fun to play them. The Eldar Exodite (Jetbike Army) is still a work in progress idea so that is out. As is the Renegade IG as I am pretty poor right now and I would need to rebuy/rebuild up the the armored component of the army. Tau would be do able, but I am worried about the competitiveness of the army and the amount of time the learning curve would take to master.
So what does that leave me. BAs, Chaos Marines, Orks, and doing some sort of retool of the Griffons to make them more effective. Maybe revamp them a bit into a Space Wolf list. I really have to agree with Dash of Pepper's comment on Dakka Dakka in the Nova Open thread where he said Space Wolves are not necessarily the best army out there, but a decent player will have just as good a chance of doing well with them as a great player with another army. Since I am only I feel a decent player, maybe I should bight the bullet and revamp the Griffons into a Space Wolves army. I have the models sitting around I would need, or at least most of them and it would allow me to flex some of my conversion muscles that I haven't used in a while when making some Thunder Wolf Cav for the army (Already have a conversion in mind, more on it later if I decide to go this way).
What do you guys think? Get the BA's done and start playing them and hope I have time to tweak the list by October? Tweak the Griffons and go Space Wolf? Should I dust off Orks and give them another try? Or should I build the Chaos Marine army I have been thinking about and planning out recently?
What do you think I should do?
I would say make the Griffins work for you as a Codex Space Marine Army. Play some more games with them to see where your problems are and work to address those problems. Do not get caught up in the this codex is better than codex stuff so I have to play with the bright shiney part. Do you want to learn to be a better player or are you always going to be following GW around from Codex to Codex with their intentionally unbalanced rules.
ReplyDeleteevidently space wolves are the way to go! They seem to be beating some serious @$$
ReplyDeleteHuron,
ReplyDeleteTo echo the previous advice, I would say to stick with your Codex: SM Howling Griffons. The army has a fantastic paint job. Your modeling and customization are subtle but make the army a cohesive fixture on the battlefield.
My advice would be to to continue to play the Howling Griffons and use Khan to his fullest.
Keep your chin up!
Jay, It was great to meet you this weekend. I hope my ol' lady lets me out of the house so I can join you all at Battle for Salvation.
ReplyDeleteIf you're thinking of Tau, I can fire you some builds that work and some that don't. The thing with Tau is that you have to be comfortable fielding a foot-list with a little bit of mech thrown in.
Anyhoo, great to meet you. See you next time.
Griffons!
ReplyDeleteDon't be a wuss! Figure out how to win with them.
Regular codex Griffons.
ReplyDeleteShow them what-for.
It wasn't as bad a spanking as you seem to think it was. I think you just under estimated the speed of the army. I also think you missed the screamers, without which i would have had a hard time popping the land raider. Besides, my dice were hot,.. how many hits did i roll on the scatter dice?
ReplyDeletePat, 11th Company
"if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil." i.e. don't cop out, make the Griffons work as a codex chapter.
ReplyDeleteI'd hate to see you repaint those Griffons! That is one awesome looking SM army and really stands out on the field. I'd stick with the Griffons.
ReplyDeleteI think you did fine in our game, but you dice betrayed you something awful.
ReplyDeleteDo not repaint then under any circumstances...they look great!
There is no way I would repaint the Griffons, the idea would be to use them as spaces wolves and add in some space wolfy models.
ReplyDeleteThey would take the form of Thunder Wolf Cav (done as Griffon Riders using the new High Elf Griffon from Island of Blood) and some Wolf Guard. Everything will still be painted in the Griffons Scheme, they would just have some space wolf bitz thrown in to make them fit the feel of me using the wolf list.
The top 2 finishers at the Nova Open were playing Blood Angels painted as Crimson Fists and Space Wolves model and paint as Red Corsairs. So playing X as Y is perfectly acceptable.
As far as sticking with the Marine Dex, I am worried about the revamp I would have to do. I almost feel like I would have to start over from scratch and revamp the whole army as my current build just does not work anymore. I am not willing to just re-arm some models and would probably need to replace whole models if I am going to change things up at the bare minimum.
Also the only Marine armies I see doing well right now are the all or mostly Bike lists (which I can't afford to build right now) or the Vulcan Salamanders List, and I feel that going Salies is just as bad as going Space Wolves, but Wolves win more.
Wow, the idea of using those HE Griffons for Thunderwolf Cav is awesome. I would love to see that!
ReplyDeleteDo you have the list you used posted here somewhere?
Retool the Howling Griffons into Blood Angels. It would allow you to explore the BA codex before committing full-bore.
ReplyDeleteWell I already have around 3K or BA, 2K of which is about 75% painted.
ReplyDeleteThe list is used is:
ReplyDeleteLibrarian w/ Terminator Armor & Storm Shield
5 Assault Terminators w/TH/Storm Shields
2 Venerable Dreads with Multimeltas
2 (10) Tactical w/pfist, flmr, ML in Rhinos
1 (10) Tactical w/pfist & cmgun, mgun, MM in Rhino
1 (5) Tactical w/power weapon & Meltabomb in Razorback w/ TwLascannon
2 Landspeeder Typhoons w/ Heavy Flamer
Landraider w/ Multimelta
2k even.
Oh, and Mike just posted the final scores. I placed 81st out of 88 players, I placed 44th out of 88 in paint score (which has me really distraught, I score a 0.49 out of 1.0, which is way lower then I thought the Griffons would score. However this is how I have been scoring at several tournaments recently so I guess I am just blind to why I score so low).
ReplyDeleteI'd say I am inching closer and closer to retiring the Griffons and going with something else.
Gawd, I'm amazed that your paint score was that low. WTF?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hudson, WTF? Your painting is much better than almost anything I have seen so for from the event!
ReplyDeleteI would hate to see you retire the Griffons.
Looking at your list, I think you need to DDM those MM Dreads. Pods would make them much more effective.
-Jim
What are your libby powers?
ReplyDeleteYou get extra credit for trying marines with no unique characters.
How are you trying to use these units?
man... you got robbed on the Painting score... thats pretty bogus...
ReplyDeleteSo I got a few more details on how the score was calculated, it seems it was more of an appearance score based on overall Army appearance, 1 single Model painting, and the conversion on another model. So the score end up being 62% Army, 19% Single model paint job, 19% Single mini conversion.
ReplyDeleteThe Army score was around 75% Paint job, Theme, and Basing and 25% being conversions and display board quality. I got a 58/100 on Army, which makes me a bit happier.
As far as single mini, I got a 35/100 (no clue why or how) and a 33/100 for conversion (which makes sense, as I entered my landspeeder with the custom targeter and converted base with the rest of the model being stock).
Seems like I am going to have to build and paint an army to this system specifically if I want to do well in the future.
Huron.
ReplyDeleteI think the Khan list would work, but needs more Razorbacks, bikes instead of speeders, and a few other tweaks...but if you are going to do those changes....
Which leads me to change my vote. I really, really, really like the idea of using the Griffons as Thunderwolf Cavalry. If you are going to add in Razorbacks anyways to tweak the list, might as well add the Griffons as Thunderwolf Cavalry. It is a fantastic idea. I would go Lords over regular Thunderwolves, but that is just me.
I have to say that the modeling of the Griffon - Thunderwolves should really help you score. Go for it. My vote is totally changed.
Jay, jhe formula you just gave explains our relative scores a bit better -- single mini conversion must have boosted me considerably.
ReplyDeleteIf you have cool conversions you want to do and want to play an army with them that is one thing, but do not change you army in a major way just because you did bad at a event.
ReplyDeleteAlso do not wolf up you army, as you said griffin it up.
Send me an email with what you have available and I'll make you a list with tactics.
ReplyDeleteSee, easy.
Having known you a while, I feel like you should either continue with the Griffons, making improvements and tweeks as you play more. The griffon thunderwolves sound cool, but they could also be counts as bikes. Think about a khan conversion with him on a griffon, and then two squads of griffon bike riders as troops, or even just a command squad to ride with him. I think that would make Khan more deadly and add a bit more fluidity to your tactics.
ReplyDeleteIf you go new army, it should be whatever holds your interest the most. I know winning reinforces that interest, but so can modeling as well. You know how many games I've played in recent years, but it is always the fluff and modelling that keeps me interested. Personally, I think retooling an army to mirror the new flavor of the month is a cop out, and goes against the spirit of what you and Bill talk about on the Gamers Lounge. The guys who used those Crimson Fist and Red Corsairs definately weren't following that WYSIWYG principle. I think that kind of experimenting belongs in casual play, not tournaments where you expect red corsairs to be a Chaos marine army, and Crimson fists to be space marine.
Chris, thank you for the confidence boost. I guess having a kid has made you sagely and wise now ;). The HE Griffon idea was originally meant to be just for a Khan biker conversion. I still don't feel it is worth 45 point to put Khan on a bike as the only advantage he gets is +1 toughness and fleet, but loses fleet as soon as he joins a squad without it.
ReplyDeleteMags, yeah that idea is a good one, and probably something I will do in the long run either way. If you look closely at my army you will already see lots of BT bitz hiding amongst several of the units. Adding some Space wolf (mostly tails and the runic pieces, not so much the wolf skulls/symbols) won't change the Griffon feel and give the army some Identifying marks that I am using them as wolves.
Stelek, I will send the list to you Asap.
I say don't fall for the SW trap.
ReplyDeleteRight now everyone think's they're "the army to beat" but doesn't mean you have to join them. Keep a sense of pride and say "NAY GOOD SIRS, I IS MARINES! NOT PUPPIES!"
It's a good feeling to me, at least.